Mitch wrote ....

> Der Mad Stamper here...
> Let me just go on record as saying that Daniel's Kids Corner idea is
> fantastic. Getting kids iterested in letterboxing is the key to turning this
> hobby into a long-term success.
>
> I am very keen on seeing the L-USA Kids Corner come to life. In order to
> realize this goal, I have been brainstorming about possible directions this
> project could go.
>
> I'm going to take a leap into the darkness here, and present some of my ideas
> to the group. Many of you work and live with kids on a daily basis, so please
> help me and Daniel by interjecting your comments and suggestions.
>
> I love the Pooh picture that Dan put on the intro page to Kids Corner! It is
> the perfect beginning for a grand letterboxing adventure. I would like to see
> a bit of creative narration describing how Pooh and friends are about to go
> looking for a letterbox (perhaps hidden by Tigger and/or Eeyore), and inviting
> the readers to help find it. Clicking on the map could launch the reader on a
> make-believe adventure, while clicking on other parts of the picture could
> lead to various letterboxing activities.
>
> The make-believe adventure I envision is centered around the 100 Aker Woods
> map. As an exercise in map reading, the web page could offer a description of
> the path that Pooh & Co. will follow to find their letterbox. Kids will have
> to follow the map and click on several destination points to work their way
> through a maze of clues.
>
> At the end of the online adventure, once the virtual letterbox has been found,
> the narrative could describe the acts of "stamping in" to the guestbook, and
> collecting the letterbox stamp in a personal book. I envision this taking
> place within the continuing story of Pooh & friends. very conversational, in a
> learn-by-example sort of way... rather than a dry, emotionless description of
> the process. The graphic here might be a simple drawing of the actual
> letterbox with its contents, and of the personal book of the seeker. Clicking
> on the letterbox could take you to a section on how to make your own
> letterbox. Clicking on the book would take you to the section on how to go
> out and hunt for letterboxes.
>
(snip)

This is an absolutely great idea!! (IMHO) A beautiful intro for kids.
As I recall, both Mitch and I weighed in _against_ cyberboxing when
the idea was first broached - a real Pandora's Box, so to speak, we
thought. But this is not the same thing at all. Or if it is, it just
shows me how easily I jump to wrong conclusions.

I have a couple of kids in my school who are getting turned on to
letterboxing, and who have been going out with their parents on
week-ends to hunt for Erik's, Susan's, and my boxes. They are old and
skilled enough (11, 12ish) not to need the Pooh intro. But I bet
they'd have a lot of fun with it anyway!

Go with it, Mitch.

Tom


Tom Cooch
tcooch@sover.net

aka The Orient Express
Braintree, VT

"The game is afoot!"
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Letterboxr@aol.com wrote:

> I love the Pooh picture that Dan put on the intro page to Kids Corner! It
> is the perfect beginning for a grand letterboxing adventure. I would like
> to see a bit of creative narration describing how Pooh and friends are
> about to go looking for a letterbox (perhaps hidden by Tigger and/or
> Eeyore), [...]
>
> The make-believe adventure I envision is centered around the 100 Aker Woods
> map.

> At the end of the online adventure, once the virtual letterbox has been
> found, the narrative could describe the acts of "stamping in" to the
> guestbook, and collecting the letterbox stamp in a personal book. I
> envision this taking place within the continuing story of Pooh & friends

I hate to always seem like a wet blanket, but I would also hate to see alot
of effort put into this project only to find out that Pooh and friends is
copyrighted by A. A. Milne or someone, and they object (for whatever reason)
to their intellectual property being portrayed thusly. If this is not an
issue, I apologize in advance, and it seems like a worthwile project
otherwise :-) (According to what I have in my library, all of that Pooh
stuff had its copyright renewed by A. A. Milne in 1956; I'm not sure if these
things expire or not, and is now in the public domain).

BTW, I should (hopefully) have the letterboxing.org domain up by the end of
the month.

Randy
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Milne would still own copyright on the Pooh stories, but Disney owns the
copyright for their images of Pooh and the gang. Disney is pretty rabid
about protecting their copyrighted images...if they find out about it.

Shannon (curling up in that wet blanket)

At 05:52 PM 11/9/98 -0400, Randy Hall wrote:
>I hate to always seem like a wet blanket, but I would also hate to see alot
>of effort put into this project only to find out that Pooh and friends is
>copyrighted by A. A. Milne or someone, and they object (for whatever reason)
>to their intellectual property being portrayed thusly. If this is not an
>issue, I apologize in advance, and it seems like a worthwile project
>otherwise :-) (According to what I have in my library, all of that Pooh
>stuff had its copyright renewed by A. A. Milne in 1956; I'm not sure if these
>things expire or not, and is now in the public domain).

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Randy Hall wrote:

> I hate to always seem like a wet blanket, but I would also hate to see alot
> of effort put into this project only to find out that Pooh and friends is
> copyrighted by A. A. Milne or someone

That could be an issue. With all the Pooh stuff that continues to
surface, some copyright must be owned somewhere by someone. Even though
this is a not-for-profit venture, the artist, or whomever owns the
rights still has recourse. The educational slant doesn't work either as
that only allows for one copy to be made. With all the talent that
oozes from this group I'm sure we can provide our own art. I am willing
to pledge my services.
--
Thom Cheney
Early Bronco Entertainment
http://www.EarlyBroncoEnt.com
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What about getting permission for Pooh and friends? Could we suggest to the
author or copyright owner what we plan to do (how many images, general format,
etc.) and see if its OK? This is what we did with the Smithsonian article.
They said it was OK to reprint with attribution (meaning we just had to give
them credit).

Dan'l

Thom Cheney wrote:
>
> Randy Hall wrote:
>
> > I hate to always seem like a wet blanket, but I would also hate to see alot
> > of effort put into this project only to find out that Pooh and friends is
> > copyrighted by A. A. Milne or someone
>
> That could be an issue. With all the Pooh stuff that continues to
> surface, some copyright must be owned somewhere by someone. Even though
> this is a not-for-profit venture, the artist, or whomever owns the
> rights still has recourse. The educational slant doesn't work either as
> that only allows for one copy to be made. With all the talent that
> oozes from this group I'm sure we can provide our own art. I am willing
> to pledge my services.
> --
> Thom Cheney
> Early Bronco Entertainment
> http://www.EarlyBroncoEnt.com
> ______________________________________________________________________
> No tricks, no gimmicks - just a great intro rate for Internet users!
> NextCard Internet VISA -- Apply online now!
> http://ads.egroups.com/click/60/1/nextcard
>
> Subscribe, unsubscribe, opt for a daily digest, or start a new e-group
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Mitch, everything you're doing looks really good. Whether we get permission for
Pooh or not I think this is going really well and will turn into a fun way to
spend some time this fall and winter. The examples of foot cusion stamps are
really neat. They're cheap, its ordinary stuff you need to make 'em -- mom or
dad probably wouldn't mind picking up the items. I like it.

Let me know what help you would like -- putting the pages up, linking or
whatever -- just let me know.

Dan'l

Letterboxr@aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi, everybody,
>
> Der Mad Stamper here...
> Let me just go on record as saying that Daniel's Kids Corner idea is
> fantastic. Getting kids iterested in letterboxing is the key to turning this
> hobby into a long-term success.
>
> I am very keen on seeing the L-USA Kids Corner come to life. In order to
> realize this goal, I have been brainstorming about possible directions this
> project could go.
>
> I'm going to take a leap into the darkness here, and present some of my ideas
> to the group. Many of you work and live with kids on a daily basis, so please
> help me and Daniel by interjecting your comments and suggestions.
>
> I love the Pooh picture that Dan put on the intro page to Kids Corner! It is
> the perfect beginning for a grand letterboxing adventure. I would like to see
> a bit of creative narration describing how Pooh and friends are about to go
> looking for a letterbox (perhaps hidden by Tigger and/or Eeyore), and inviting
> the readers to help find it. Clicking on the map could launch the reader on a
> make-believe adventure, while clicking on other parts of the picture could
> lead to various letterboxing activities.
>
> The make-believe adventure I envision is centered around the 100 Aker Woods
> map. As an exercise in map reading, the web page could offer a description of
> the path that Pooh & Co. will follow to find their letterbox. Kids will have
> to follow the map and click on several destination points to work their way
> through a maze of clues.
>
> At the end of the online adventure, once the virtual letterbox has been found,
> the narrative could describe the acts of "stamping in" to the guestbook, and
> collecting the letterbox stamp in a personal book. I envision this taking
> place within the continuing story of Pooh & friends very conversational, in a
> learn-by-example sort of way... rather than a dry, emotionless description of
> the process. The graphic here might be a simple drawing of the actual
> letterbox with its contents, and of the personal book of the seeker. Clicking
> on the letterbox could take you to a section on how to make your own
> letterbox. Clicking on the book would take you to the section on how to go
> out and hunt for letterboxes.
>
> The section on hunting for letterboxes could begin with a checklist of the
> things you need to take with you when you go hunting for letterboxes. (book,
> stamp, ink pad, etc.) It could then have a link to the list of kid-friendly
> letterbox clues, and possibly a link to a page of notes regarding the use of
> maps, etc.
>
> The other section would include step-by-step instructions for placing your own
> letterbox. I envision at least 4 parts to this section:
>
> 1.) Making a Stamp. Im already working on this part. To view what I've
> created so far, go to the
> Kids Corner page and click on Winnie the Pooh. This takes you to a page
> I'm working on about how kids can carve their own stamps. Clicking on the bat
> at the bottom of the page takes you to some graphics I've been collecting for
> this project.
>
> On this graphics page, click on the right arrow at the bottom of the page to
> view another idea I have for helping kids to make their own stamps.
>
> 2.) Assembly. This part would list exactly what to include in the letterbox,
> and where to get it. In other words, what to use as a guestbook, what to use
> as a container, etc.
>
> 3.) Hiding. This part would give tips on what sort of location to look for
> when choosing a hiding place.
>
> 4.) Clues. This part would give tips on how to compose a good clue, how to
> make a map, etc.
>
> Well, that's my vision, so far. I hope it gives us a place to start and helps
> to get the suggestions flowing on the Kids Corner. Please take my ideas into
> consideration and give us some feedback regarding what we can do to make this
> area of the L-USA site a big success.
>
> Sincerely,
> Mitch Klink
>
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Mitch:
Your creative energy amazes me! The whole bit about using a pencil to
make a simple eraser carver - wow!
And, nice clear photos, text, etc. Such lovely whimsey. Keep up teh good
work!
Erik

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Randy (malenkai@bee.net) writes:

> I hate to always seem like a wet blanket, but I would also hate to see alot
> of effort put into this project only to find out that Pooh and friends is
> copyrighted by A. A. Milne or someone, and they object (for whatever
reason)
>
> to their intellectual property being portrayed thusly. If this is not an
> issue, I apologize in advance, and it seems like a worthwile project
> otherwise :-) (According to what I have in my library, all of that Pooh
> stuff had its copyright renewed by A. A. Milne in 1956; I'm not sure if
> these
> things expire or not, and is now in the public domain).

Randy makes a very valid point. I was under the mistaken impression that the
"classic" Pooh images (as opposed to the Disney versions) were now in public
domain. This apparently is not the case.
(see
http://builder.cnet.com/Business/Law/ss06a.html )

Perhaps Dan is right, however, in suggesting that before we give up entirely
on the idea, we might try asking for permission. The above link provides some
leads on who to contact regarding this.

Otherwise, we should probably follow Thom's advice and begin thinking about
creating our own art.

Mitch
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I thought I read recently that the copyright to Pooh would be expiring
soon .... this is what my limited understanding can contribute. maybe.
In the books I own, it says that E.P. Dutton copyrighted Winnie the
Pooh in 1926, and House at Pooh Corner in 1928. A.A. Milne
renewed these copyrights in 1954 and 1956 respectively. If what
I understand about the change in copyright law that took place in
1978 is correct: works that were originally published/copyrighted
before Jan. 1, 1978 have a copyright of 28 years which can be
renewed in the 28th year for an additional 47 years to end up with a
total copyright protection term of 75 years before that work would pass
into the public domain. If some international law does not affect Milne's
work, I think these two works would pass into the public domain in
2001 for Winnie the Pooh, and 2003 for The House at Pooh Corner.
This may explain the plethora of licensing that is happening now....
Pooh is everywhere! ~ and I think that Disney must have a bigtime
licensing agreement with "The Trustees of the Pooh Properties"
(there really is such a thing according to the copyright notice in
one of my books!) ~ probably they get to hold onto the copyrights/
trademarks of the Disney Pooh, but I'll bet not "classic" Pooh.
Sorry so long ~ but maybe the wet blanket is really only damp?
Deborah

In a message dated 11/9/98 7:10:52 PM Central Standard Time, sgreen@wf.net
writes:
> Milne would still own copyright on the Pooh stories, but Disney owns the
> copyright for their images of Pooh and the gang. Disney is pretty rabid
> about protecting their copyrighted images...if they find out about it.
>
> Shannon (curling up in that wet blanket)
>
> At 05:52 PM 11/9/98 -0400, Randy Hall wrote:
> >I hate to always seem like a wet blanket, but I would also hate to see
alot
> >of effort put into this project only to find out that Pooh and friends is
> >copyrighted by A. A. Milne or someone, and they object (for whatever
reason)
>
> >to their intellectual property being portrayed thusly. If this is not an
> >issue, I apologize in advance, and it seems like a worthwile project
> >otherwise :-) (According to what I have in my library, all of that Pooh
> >stuff had its copyright renewed by A. A. Milne in 1956; I'm not sure if
> these
> >things expire or not, and is now in the public domain).
>
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